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kyhunter
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8
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 Posted: July 23rd, 2009 03:59 PM |
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it no big deal Brusman and i am not going to drop names about who thinks they are a self proclaimed bigfoot/saquatch expert.
one example of a person who makes this claim just released a new book in june of 09 and even goes as far as they have sasquatch dna.
i dont do the bickering about whos who or right or wrong on theese discussion booards. im leaving it as i thionk theese recordings are fake |
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 23rd, 2009 04:41 PM |
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| That's fair kyhunter. If you can not or do not name an expert it's all the same to me. |
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PBYodeler
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1868
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| Posted: July 23rd, 2009 05:25 PM |
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Everyone,
Bossburg mad it clear that there was to be no arguing here. If it continues there will be no more warnings.
PBYodeler |
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 23rd, 2009 06:01 PM |
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Quote:
PBYodeler wrote:
Everyone,
Bossburg mad it clear that there was to be no arguing here. If it continues there will be no more warnings.
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Sorry to get off subject PBYodeler. Have you found the time yet to look into this? What do you think of it all? Could it be the biggest thing to hit the BF world in some time? I'd like to know what you, Bossberg and some of the other old timers think about it overall. (oldtimers meaning # of posts) |
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 25th, 2009 09:24 AM |
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Quote:
Leatherneck wrote:
I thought the site appeared very professional.
Mark
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I agree. Did you listen to the recordings? |
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LeeD
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 47
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| Posted: July 25th, 2009 11:37 PM |
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Many of the vocalizations captured by these Michigan researchers are very similar to other recordings made by a variety of other independent researchers over the years, so I don't feel there is anything particularly new here. But that's not to detract from their fine efforts. I applaud what they have bravely done (yes, please do go and read their notes).
As for the vocal formants, I think we need to keep in mind that juvenile BF can not be expected to project the more extreme low end frequencies we might expect from a mature BF male, for example. The slightly higher frequency recordings of juveniles/adolescents -- some of which I think we hear here -- more closely approximate the normal frequency range of both mature male and female humans; so in some ways vocalization recordings could be easily mistaken for one another. Inevitably, some listeners might mistake a not completely matured BF vocalization for an adult male or female human. Likewise, the smaller kiddie BF whoops and screeches could be expected to sound a lot like like young human kids, as they often seem to do around denning areas.
So ultimately, because many (although not all) BF and human vocal frequencies overlap, there will remain some confusion as to the identity of the vocalization source until someone gets the act on camera. But lets not undervalue the fact that knowing something about the researchers involved, their integrity level, the lay of the land, etc., does go a long way towards convincing folks of at least the likelihood of authenticity.
Lots of us here already know what BF can sound like in the field although I'm sure most of us have only heard mere snippets of what they are fully capable of in terms sheer variety of vocalizations. Although plenty of researchers have heard similar vocalizations in country, most haven't been able to record them; so kudos to this research group.
From what I can gather, certain BF vocalizations sound pretty much the same here in Canada as they do in Upper State New York and anywhere else I have heard recordings originate from. The element of consistency is an important factor for my money.
LeeD
You can shake it, you can break it, you can hang it on the wall... |
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robday
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 789
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| Posted: July 26th, 2009 02:51 PM |
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I like these recordings for several reasons.
First, because of some very obvious similarities to the Sierra Sounds. Second, because some on other forums have posted that they've heard very similar sounds in totally different parts of the country.
Without a videotape (or eyewitness acount) of a BF making these sounds, they will never be considered "conclusive". But they are certainly interesting, to say the least.
Ruling out known animals should be attempted, and those with a lot of recording experience are far better suited to weigh in on this. Based on what I read from the website, a lot of time and work went into the project. I do not believe that the researchers are part of a hoax. But I can't rule out the possibility that they were hoaxed. They seem to have done their due diligence in attempting to minimize this possibility, but it's still impossible to rule it out completely.
Brushman says they're the real deal, and I'm sure he has a little more info than I do. So I'm not going to argue with him or his opinion. I would absolutely LOVE them to be authentic, and I see no hard evidence to suggest otherwise. I've also read (on other forums) that there is more info on the project, but the researchers are keeping quiet about it to maintain confidentiality (understandable). And I hope as time passes the team will share more of this info if they can. |
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semi p
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 391
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| Posted: July 27th, 2009 12:22 PM |
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| I think the site is very nicely made (although VERY slow). Some of the recordings sound authentic in that it would be difficult for a human to replicate, although not impossible. Other sounds don't strike me a very convincing. A mixed bag, really. However, the researches seem to have put a good amount of time, thought and integrity into the project, and if it is authentic, I wish them the best of luck. |
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ApesAmongUs
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 71
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| Posted: July 27th, 2009 03:44 PM |
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There is no bio-acoustic template for Sasquatch. We have no base-line to compare to, there are too many potential variables for diversity in vocalizations(gender, age, family group, topography, etc.) to definitively declare Sas or no Sas based on pitch, volume, etc.
I'm never one to declare any new evidence as hoaxed, because I hate that I might be wrong, and discouraging others from reporting their experiences. From my experience in the forest, there are some really strange vocalizations from time to time, and the source is often an animal you'd least expect. In this case, I believe the source to be human beings. My opinion is based more on the nature of the interaction between the subjects, and the content in it's totality, than the pitch, volume, or human reproduction potential of the sounds. |
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semi p
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 391
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| Posted: July 27th, 2009 03:48 PM |
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| Good point, A.A.U. |
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 28th, 2009 12:23 PM |
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AAU, I have questions about your post. You said:
"I'm never one to declare any new evidence as hoaxed"
"In this case, I believe the source to be human beings."
If it's human beings then it must be some type of hoax right? Is that what you are saying?
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 28th, 2009 12:38 PM |
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Quote:
semi p wrote:
I think the site is very nicely made (although VERY slow). Some of the recordings sound authentic in that it would be difficult for a human to replicate, although not impossible. Other sounds don't strike me a very convincing. A mixed bag, really. However, the researches seem to have put a good amount of time, thought and integrity into the project, and if it is authentic, I wish them the best of luck.
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Well said. I wish them best of luck too. |
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PBYodeler
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1868
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| Posted: July 28th, 2009 01:00 PM |
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Quote:
Brushman wrote:
AAU, I have questions about your post. You said:
"I'm never one to declare any new evidence as hoaxed"
"In this case, I believe the source to be human beings."
If it's human beings then it must be some type of hoax right? Is that what you are saying?
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Brushman,
AAU isn't saying it's a hoax because he doesn't know that it is. He's just giving his opinion. It seems like every time someone posts an opinion contrary to your own you take offense to it so if you're looking to start another argument on this thread then there won't be any more warnings. This is the last time.
PBYodeler |
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ApesAmongUs
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 71
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| Posted: July 28th, 2009 03:18 PM |
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Brushman,
Like I said, I hate to label any new evidence as hoaxed. I don't lob grenades from the peanut gallery. In fact, if you reference a previous thread regarding linguistic analysis of the Sierra Sounds labeled "Crypto-Linguistic Study", you will note that I'm very receptive to bio-acoustic evidence, especially that which is reviewed by experts. That's why my feelings were mixed upon review of the recordings. My opinion is as stated above, the content and interaction displayed in the recordings leads me to believe there was a human source, hoax or no hoax. |
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 28th, 2009 10:18 PM |
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| AAU, I thank you for your response to my question. I asked it only to clarify your opinion. Sierra Sounds does come up when the MRP is being duscussed. I will try to find the thread you you quoted. Maybe there I will learn more. I'm not very familiar with the Sierra Sounds but I value your opioion as much any other here. And I take no offence in your opinion. That would be less than analytical thinking on my part. Debate not argument is my interest. Like you I am only offering opinion. |
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 29th, 2009 11:53 AM |
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Quote:
robday wrote:
I like these recordings for several reasons.
First, because of some very obvious similarities to the Sierra Sounds. Second, because some on other forums have posted that they've heard very similar sounds in totally different parts of the country.
Without a videotape (or eyewitness acount) of a BF making these sounds, they will never be considered "conclusive". But they are certainly interesting, to say the least.
Ruling out known animals should be attempted, and those with a lot of recording experience are far better suited to weigh in on this. Based on what I read from the website, a lot of time and work went into the project. I do not believe that the researchers are part of a hoax. But I can't rule out the possibility that they were hoaxed. They seem to have done their due diligence in attempting to minimize this possibility, but it's still impossible to rule it out completely.
Brushman says they're the real deal, and I'm sure he has a little more info than I do. So I'm not going to argue with him or his opinion. I would absolutely LOVE them to be authentic, and I see no hard evidence to suggest otherwise. I've also read (on other forums) that there is more info on the project, but the researchers are keeping quiet about it to maintain confidentiality (understandable). And I hope as time passes the team will share more of this info if they can.
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Good to see you jump in here robday. At this point the way things are going my guess is that we will see and hear more from the MRP group. I don't speak for them but I believe we will have more to study at some point. |
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robday
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 789
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| Posted: July 29th, 2009 11:47 PM |
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Hello Brushman!
I'm noticing more people are chiming in and describing hearing similar (or almost identical) sounds from various parts of the country. This alone can rule out some of the known animals since they don't inhabit the entire country.
Hopefully we will get to hear more of the recordings from this project in the near future, and more from others around the country.
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 30th, 2009 07:03 PM |
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Quote:
robday wrote:
Hello Brushman!
I'm noticing more people are chiming in and describing hearing similar (or almost identical) sounds from various parts of the country. This alone can rule out some of the known animals since they don't inhabit the entire country.
Hopefully we will get to hear more of the recordings from this project in the near future, and more from others around the country.
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I noticed that too. Yes we will hear more, well some of us will. Most will not the way it looks now. |
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ApesAmongUs
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 71
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| Posted: July 30th, 2009 07:50 PM |
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Brushman,
Glad to clarify. Yes, the Sierra sounds, in my view are legit. My knowledge of MRP is limited to what's posted on their site, and the backup research done by other groups in hopes of validating their evidence. The geographic discrepancies, as they relate to the study area itself, and it's description; coupled with the level of interaction in said location is what I'm troubled by. Do you believe it's possible, like Robday mentioned, that this group was hoaxed by nearby residents or locals to the area, without their knowledge?
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 31st, 2009 12:31 AM |
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| AAU, Up to this point I have never disagreed with robday on anything that I know of. So, the answer to your very thought out and well worded question is yes. I would add that it is just as possible that one of our robots on Mars will fly home and land in my backyard. But seriously, these people are intelligent investigators and researchers. They have been doing this work for years. They are well known and respected by many. Geographic discrepancies? I do not know of any. Level of interaction? Please elaborate. |
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ApesAmongUs
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 71
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| Posted: July 31st, 2009 11:13 AM |
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Hey Brushman,
I PM'd you a webpage that outlines the geographical discrepancies, and illustrates them through aerial imagery.
Level of interaction....--with the creatures in such close proximity to one another, I'm having trouble with the volume and intensity of the vocal exchanges. Why so loud, when so close to one another? Not necessary....and draws attention---were these displays to frighten off researchers?
Also, with residences in such close proximity to the Cedar Flats location, wouldn't there be a long history of 911 calls, and reports of these vocals from residents in the area. The location doesn't seem to be as remote as described or diagrammed on the website. Perhaps with your knowledge of the site, you can clarify this.
These are the few concerns that I have. I'm the farthest thing from cynical. I'm extremely open to new evidence. I want to better understand and appreciate the evidence these hard working researchers have gathered. I'm open to these recordings being the real deal. Thanks for the discussion. |
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robday
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 789
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| Posted: July 31st, 2009 12:09 PM |
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Quote:
Brushman wrote:
AAU, Up to this point I have never disagreed with robday on anything that I know of.
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Awww, you're making me blush! 
It's my understanding that there is more material still undisclosed about this location/research. According to the website, they only released a few of the recordings they have. There have been mentions of other activity from this project by the research team, but this information has not yet been disclosed and may include a sighting.
I'm anxious to hear more, and I think the extra info will go a long way towards explaining what some see as discrepancies.
For the record, I do not believe this team is a part of anything dubious. Their reputations in this field are stellar and their methods are extremely thorough.
Sitting in front of a PC, I obviously can't come to any conclusions about possible human interaction with the team. As I said before, an outside hoax can't be 100% ruled out. But can it ever be?
As usual, stay tuned...
R.
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 31st, 2009 01:13 PM |
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AAU, I got your PM with the link. I had already read that tripe. Why not post the link here? Is it against the rules? Do you need permission? Maybe it's better to not even ask. The reason being that the write up by Higgins is just plain silly and the bfro may not want it posted here.
The only people that truly know the site are the MRP researchers. Higgins does not know the site location any more than you or I do. One could find any number of aerial shots like that in Michigan. Think about why someone would try to out a research location. What are they selling for example. Please answer that one.
As far as your other questions I just don't know the answers. I was never there.
Cynical? Not when you ask questions and make statements like these below.
Posted: December 18th, 2008 10:36 AM
From your field experience, would you draw the conclusion that BF can speak, and sound like we do? Does he/she have actual speech and diction?
The "samurai speech" intrigues me. If BF has his/her own language and speech, that goes a long way in convincing me that this is some form of human. Some alternate species, or off-shoot from early human, that has evolved seperately from us.
The above goes to show that you are extremely open to new evidence.
I understand your concerns even though I do not share them. Good discussion.
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 31st, 2009 01:30 PM |
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| So now we disagree robday. I don't believe you blushed. |
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robday
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 789
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| Posted: July 31st, 2009 02:40 PM |
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Brushman
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 167
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| Posted: July 31st, 2009 07:00 PM |
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Quote:
FEKLAAR wrote:
Does anyone here have opinions on this new evidence? Much of it sounds human to me, but.... thoughts folks?
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Considering the membership size of this forum and the fact that the MRP release is big news all over the www, I am surprised at the seemingly lack of interest here. Is this subject being discussed in some other area of this forum? If it is I have not been able to find it. Please advise. |
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Bossburg
Administrator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1970
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| Posted: July 31st, 2009 07:51 PM |
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This is it, Brushman. Seems not everyone shares your excitement. In this particular case, if people read what others have posted and how they've gotten nailed for it, I think that speaks volumes to why this thread hasn't proceeded. As I said, not everyone shares your excitement.
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ladyliza
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 96
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| Posted: August 1st, 2009 02:20 AM |
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I found the site very well put together and exciting to read and listen to. But i don't feel im qualified to say one way or the other about the recordings, as i have never heard a sasquatch live. So i usually don't post my thoughts. I have only heard recordings and only know what is posted about them. But i have listened to them a few times now and i am excited for this research team for all the hard work they have put into it.. I wish them all the best.. Keep on squatchin
Northwestern Pa, McKean County |
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HFfootball
Unregistered
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 29
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| Posted: August 1st, 2009 09:39 AM |
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Quote:
TRUTH-SEEKER wrote:
Well I bought and I've listened to the Sierra Sounds cd over and over again.. And there is some parts in them recordings that sound pretty human to me.. In fact there is one part that I swear I can here the animal speak.. And what I hear sounds like the animal actually curses.. Sounds like the animal says... I'll abbreviate. But it sound's like it says W.T.F... I swear I hear it.. And I've pointed it out to others on expeditions and they agree.. I've also pointed it out to family members and friends, they also hear it.. So I'm not the only one that hears it.. Anyway, just because it sounds human doesn't always mean it is human.. I also know that just because it sounded like it said W.T.F. doesn't mean that's what it actually said.. But it might of.. I'm sure Squatch has heard them words plenty of times..
"W.T. F. was that..?" Sure they hear that quite often..
And they do mimic forrest animals, why not people too...
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as for the website, personally i like the BFRO recordings, especially the 94' ohio recording, i heard something like that once, plus my dog goes ape whenever i play it
to me the people in the site, ive listened to a few clips so far, all i hear are humans screaming, hootin and hollerin. ill check it out again but personally so far im just not impressed, im sure they got something on there, its just not my thing and out of personal preference ill stick to the sierra sounds and the BFRO collection of sounds.
(Edited by Bossburg)
Squatching NY's Adirondack Mountains, well at least trying to..... |
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Thompsy
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 236
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| Posted: August 1st, 2009 12:01 PM |
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Dang! i am unable to listen to the recordings. No adobe flash.
Married white male seeking class A sighting of Biggie!
2009 MN Expedition. |
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