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kirock
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Joined: Aug 2007
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 Posted: February 2nd, 2010 04:47 PM |
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MarkB, I've had the same xperience while elk hunting in the Blue Mountains. It was below zero and trees were "popping" all around us. Very strange, but normal.
Keep your eyes peeled. |
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narrowfoot
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| Posted: February 2nd, 2010 11:17 PM |
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When the temperature goes down near zero, the rafters in the attic pop loudly. I wouldn't confuse that with a knock, because it is overhead and inside.
"Technological advances are not limited to human populations." |
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bkearton
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Joined: Sep 2008
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| Posted: February 3rd, 2010 09:56 AM |
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I haven't posted on here for quite a long time, but I check in everyday to read the updated posts, but any way, I was lying in bed this morning and making noises at my cat when I started making a "knock" sound with my tongue off the roof of my mouth. That got me thinking ... has anyone considered the possibility that "knocks" may be a vocal communication between sasquatches? If it is vocal, they could change pitch and volume. If the "knocks" really are sasquatches banging tree limbs and such, then that would mean they are using a rudimentary tool.
Thanks for allowing me to share my thoughts. |
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MarkB
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Posts: 83
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| Posted: February 3rd, 2010 10:59 AM |
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I think the actual tree knocks are much too loud to be produced by vocal cords. When the extreme cold causes a tree to produce that same type of knock, the slamming part of the knock is absent. I would describe it as when a piece of wood is hit against a tree, you have 2 sounds. One is the 'hit' and the other is the echo within the tree itself. These seem to occur almost together in a tree knock. When the stresses from the extreme cold cause it, all you hear is the echo within the tree trunk. Hope that makes some kind of sense. MarkB
Seeking only the Truth |
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bkearton
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| Posted: February 3rd, 2010 11:22 AM |
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From descriptions thatI've read and recordings that I've heard, I tend to agree with you on the volume aspect. I actually thought of that before I posted, but being an unknown animal, I just wonder if there might be a way that a sound like that could be produced by a sasquatch at an extreme volume compared to a human. Like I said, just a thought.
So, if we would rule out a "knock" being vocally produced, that leaves us with the sasquatch using a tool (such as a small log or tree limb) to "knock on trees. Could they also use these "tools" for hunting prey by striking or throwing then. Definitely a higher intelligence involved.
Thanks for your insights, MarkB. |
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monongahela
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 349
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| Posted: February 3rd, 2010 01:11 PM |
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If we stand back and consider what a wood knock is, a type of percussion, then we begin to see that squatch is capable of producing a variety of percussion sounds. These would include hand claps, lip or tongue pops, rock clacks and wood knocks.
In my audio analysis studies I've found wood knocks to be easily distinguishable by their unique frequency characteristic, which differs from that of a more organic knock (like a hand clap). Wood knocks reverberate at a very wide range of frequency (as do many mechanically generated knocks). In a spectrogram you'll see a distinct vertical line that spans from very low frequencies up to to very high frequencies. All of these frequencies are encapsulated in the single explosive instant of the percussion, and are very noticeable. In fact, even when faint wood knocks are recorded from a great distance, that vertical signal can still be seen (albeit greatly diminished). Hand claps or lip pops on the other hand occupy a much narrower band in the sound spectrum. They do appear as a vertical spike, but its normally confined to a limited frequency range, much narrower than a wood on wood knock.
Monongahela
sites.google.com/site/mongahela |
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Barb Kaz
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Posts: 117
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| Posted: February 3rd, 2010 01:44 PM |
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I've heard trees "pop" in the cold, and I've heard limbs snap from the weight of snow, and I've heard wood knocks...they all sound very different to me.
Barb Kaz
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Taxfree
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 30
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| Posted: February 3rd, 2010 01:49 PM |
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A reoccurring assumption that many are making is that BF is 'always' aware of a foreign presence in their territory. I have a hard time accepting this assumption and suspect there are many times that BF is unaware of a foreign presence. The copious amounts of sightings over the years seems to prove this point. Granted some of the sightings can be related to BF wanting to make their presence known but this cannot be true for all (statistically impossible). As such, I agree with Bill Bogs that a wood knock conveys many meanings and is not simply to identify a foreign presence in BF territory. I would think that many man-made wood knocks often catch BF off guard and when this happens - multiple response knocks would be heard (1st generation BF-GPS).
[quote]Bill Boqs wrote:
To human ears a knock may sound like nothing more than a sharp wood-on-wood WHACK but, in context, it may well be capable of conveying a wide variety of essential information.
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imonacan
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Joined: Dec 2008
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| Posted: February 3rd, 2010 02:37 PM |
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| Last year, I had some of the sounds mentioned here turn up on my overnight audio recordings, in an area of wild forest noted for past squatch activity. The sounds included a series of quick banging knocks (several times in a group of 7-8). I also heard the same bangs (at night) live, and didn't get it recorded. These bangs usually aroused what sounded like coyotes and another time, Barred Owl. I also recorded what sounded like percussive sounds similar to either a lite bongo or wooden wind chime sound, and this took place shortly after sunrise. The most interesting (to me) was a tongue pop (click) sound that came out very clearly, while something (or someone) was lightly scratching at the fake fur mic cover on my portable recorder that I had placed in a tree crotch. Crunching steps were also noted on the same recording. While I certainly can't conclude that it was squatch, I have eliminated what I think it is not....woodpeckers or forest animals with paws or a muzzle (making tongue pops), the wind or other natural sound, and probably not likely humans in that remote location. I'd be interested to hear of anyone that's recorded the same or similar sounds, or any reports of a witness encounter with squatch making a tongue or palete popping sound. |
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MarkB
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 83
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| Posted: February 3rd, 2010 02:56 PM |
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monongahela,
If I get back up there this winter and can make an audio recording of the 'knocks' I heard, do you think you would be able to isolate the reverberation from a natural tree contraction (in extreme cold) from an actual tree knock (with a piece of wood striking the tree trunk)? To my ear, the similarity was striking and if the conditions were the same but without the extreme temperatures, I would have thought something was wood knocking. It would be interesting to compare them using audio analysis.
My cabin is made of logs and is seasonal so its subject to variations of humidity and temperature. Its been about 20 years since I built it and I still get many different sounds from the logs. Some sound like glass breaking and some sound like splintering. None of the settling sounds are even remotely similar to tree knocks. MarkB
Seeking only the Truth |
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monongahela
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 349
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| Posted: February 3rd, 2010 03:14 PM |
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MarkB, sure, let's give it a shot. I have plenty of wood knock recordings already (some I generated, others generated by something in the forest, apparently equipped with thumbs). Could be an interesting angle to examine.
imonacan, I've recorded wood knocks similar what you describe, multiple, fast, and multi-toned like they were on a xylophone. Unfortunately all of my stuff is very faint because I wasn't close enough to the action. But I've also received and listened to the wood knock recordings of other researchers, and the variety of knock sounds is pretty vast.
Monongahela
sites.google.com/site/mongahela |
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robday
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 788
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| Posted: February 3rd, 2010 10:39 PM |
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| I have read an account from one eyewitness who claims to have seen a squatch make the "knock" sound with its mouth/lungs. If it's ok with the admins, I'll post the info that can get you to this particular forum/witness/account. |
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bbwena
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 280
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| Posted: February 4th, 2010 01:20 AM |
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Wow that's amazing Steve! Thanks for sharing that!! I didn't catch it in the expedition notes.
My mother's take...."Well don't let the government know, then they will have to start paying taxes."  |
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proguide66
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 25
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| Posted: February 4th, 2010 09:22 PM |
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Quote:
BethinFL wrote:
Do trees ever pop in the winter due to the cold? I'm just curious. In Michigan during the winter, I can remember the siding on our house popping or snapping. If you didn't know what it was, you would think something had just slapped the outside of the house. I'm just wondering if a winter "knock" is actually just a natural pop? Just asking.
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I am familair with cold 'pops' in the timber here in BC. The 'knocks' on either side of me the other week was in 3degree C and as well sound quite 'different' than those frozen pops of the trees. Hve been there twice since and have felt ' nothing' or heard nothing....yet.
I am a game guide in B.C. as well guide on the coast for sport fish. |
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BethinFL
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 824
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| Posted: February 5th, 2010 09:58 AM |
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| I remember the cracking sounds of branches coming down during ice storms, but just couldn't recall being in the woods and hearing a pop on a cold day. I vividly recall the disconcerting sounds of the ice on very cold days while out ice fishing. |
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Andy
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Joined: Jul 2006
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| Posted: February 5th, 2010 10:33 AM |
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When Buffalo had that last ice storm the big old trees not only cracked and cracked like gunshots, but all the huge branches came down as well. That was from the ice-weight on them.
Sometimes, if it gets down to the -0's we hear the big trees snapping. (The house beams, too!)
seeing is believing |
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bkearton
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Joined: Sep 2008
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| Posted: February 5th, 2010 12:41 PM |
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| We had the ice storm in Kentucky last year and IMO there is a huge difference in sound a "knock" and a tree "cracking". |
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MarkB
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| Posted: February 5th, 2010 01:25 PM |
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Trees cracking are much different than the sound caused by extreme cold. In my area, it has to get very cold for the trees to make this sound. That morning, it was -14f. I cannot compare the sound to an actual Squatch knock because I have never heard one, but take 2 pieces of Hard Maple (very dry) and knock them together and thats exactly what it sounded like. The other mornings when it was -2 to 5 f, I did not hear any of these sounds. All 3 came from a ridge with very large Maple trees and absolutely still air. No snow or ice buildup on the trees and the sun just coming up. Those mornings are so beautiful! Talking about this makes me miss it even more. MarkB
Seeking only the Truth |
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Barb Kaz
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 117
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| Posted: February 5th, 2010 04:44 PM |
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Quote:
Andy wrote:
When Buffalo had that last ice storm the big old trees not only cracked and cracked like gunshots, but all the huge branches came down as well. That was from the ice-weight on them.
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Everyone here in Buffalo remembers the horrible sounds of every tree being damaged and 100 year old trees being completely destroyed. It's referred to as the October Storm, but our family calls it "the night the trees cried". Everytime I hear trees making the snap, crackle, pop sound in the winter, I remember how loud and how much worse the sounds were during that storm. It was heartbreaking, and I still continue to see the strange tree breaks it created.
Barb Kaz
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MarkB
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 83
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| Posted: February 5th, 2010 08:59 PM |
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Barb,
Your post got me to think. I wonder what Biggies do when severe storms hit? Hurricanes, ice storms, thunderstorms, etc. I know my wife and dogs freak out and hide while I am an idiot standing in the garage watching the storms (not hurricanes). Are there any reports of them taking shelter or being exposed during a big storm? I would imagine they dont have a nice bed to crawl under... 
MarkB
Seeking only the Truth |
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Barb Kaz
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 117
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| Posted: February 6th, 2010 12:36 PM |
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Quote:
MarkB wrote:
Barb,
Your post got me to think. I wonder what Biggies do when severe storms hit? Hurricanes, ice storms, thunderstorms, etc. I know my wife and dogs freak out and hide while I am an idiot standing in the garage watching the storms (not hurricanes). Are there any reports of them taking shelter or being exposed during a big storm? I would imagine they dont have a nice bed to crawl under...
MarkB
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I'd like to think they have a nice cozy place to hunker down during storms. I know when I was watching the October Storm, I was wondering what the squirrels and birds were doing when their homes were falling down and the thunder crashed overhead for hours, but I didn't see any animals at all. I did notice that for the remainder of the Fall, they seemed to be in a frenzy, I guess trying to "rebuild" before winter. The squirrels especially were going crazy trying to build up another stash of food for the winter.
Barb Kaz
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imonacan
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: February 6th, 2010 12:51 PM |
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Quote:
monongahela wrote:
imonacan, I've recorded wood knocks similar what you describe, multiple, fast, and multi-toned like they were on a xylophone. Unfortunately all of my stuff is very faint because I wasn't close enough to the action. But I've also received and listened to the wood knock recordings of other researchers, and the variety of knock sounds is pretty vast.
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That's interesting to hear. Comparing and sharing what we've recorded in the field, is always a good thing...IMO. In some of my recordings, the knocks and percussive sounds were a bit faint, so I amplified the clips, and ran it through an EQ curve in my editing program, just to reduce the higher end hiss. I was careful not to alter or distort the sounds of interest. Here are the links to those clips, with a description of each:
http://soundcloud.com/imonacan/ovrn...izations-knocks
http://soundcloud.com/imonacan/ovrn...-11-clip-knocks
http://soundcloud.com/imonacan/ovrn...ip-whooh-knocks
A few months earlier in the summer, I clipped out some sounds from a section of an overnight recording from the same general area.
The crunching steps or scratching sounds alone, were not overly impressive, but those sounds along with the tongue click (pop), made it much more interesting, to me:
http://soundcloud.com/imonacan/ovrn...t-8-1-pt1-clipe
I'll be uploading any future recordings of interest at this same location, if lucky enough to capture any worth sharing from the field. For anyone that does overnight audio recording, they already know there are countless hours and sessions of usually monitoring back nothing but normal nocturnal sounds.
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imonacan
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: February 6th, 2010 01:01 PM |
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Quote:
robday wrote:
I have read an account from one eyewitness who claims to have seen a squatch make the "knock" sound with its mouth/lungs. If it's ok with the admins, I'll post the info that can get you to this particular forum/witness/account.
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Yes, I'd be very interested to read about that witness account, and Thanks in advance if you can provide a link. If it's not a good thing to post that link here, you are certainly welcome to PM me the info (at your leisure).
imonacan,
If Rob wants to PM you the link that's fine but it's really not a good idea to post your personal email address where everybody can see it. You can give it to him through a PM if you want him to have it.
(Edited by PBYodeler) |
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monongahela
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 349
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| Posted: February 6th, 2010 01:21 PM |
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imonacan,
I agree, sharing data of all sorts is always in our best interest in this type of research.
Your recordings are very interesting. Not sure what that vocalizer is in the first recording, can't say I've heard a purported squatch recording like it, but there's always a first time for everything. The knocks are very interesting. Maybe the two sounds are from two different sources?
The vocalization in the third recording sounds dog-like to me, until the very end of the sound when it takes an upward whoop-like turn.
The fourth recording is quite interesting. I wonder what it is that would hang around and scratch on your mic so rhythmically?
I tried to download your recordings for a closer look, but I believe that hosting site doesn't allow download (I couldn't figure it out anyway). But in the short run through of your files, I thought I could make out some distant vocalizations and wood knocks. With a little filtering, amplification and looping, I might be able to hear them better.
Monongahela
sites.google.com/site/mongahela |
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Barb Kaz
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 117
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| Posted: February 6th, 2010 01:41 PM |
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imonacan, Maybe I'm easily impressed, but I thought the crunching footsteps recording was impressive. It definitely sounds like something bipedal trying to walk quietly. I know bears can also make popping and clicking sounds with their jaws/teeth, but the rest of the sounds on your recording just don't sound bear-like to me. Thanks for sharing.
Barb Kaz
NW PA 08
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PBYodeler
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1867
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| Posted: February 6th, 2010 01:48 PM |
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Quote:
imonacan wrote:
That's interesting to hear. Comparing and sharing what we've recorded in the field, is always a good thing...IMO. In some of my recordings, the knocks and percussive sounds were a bit faint, so I amplified the clips, and ran it through an EQ curve in my editing program, just to reduce the higher end hiss. I was careful not to alter or distort the sounds of interest. Here are the links to those clips, with a description of each:
http://soundcloud.com/imonacan/ovrn...izations-knocks
http://soundcloud.com/imonacan/ovrn...-11-clip-knocks
http://soundcloud.com/imonacan/ovrn...ip-whooh-knocks
A few months earlier in the summer, I clipped out some sounds from a section of an overnight recording from the same general area.
The crunching steps or scratching sounds alone, were not overly impressive, but those sounds along with the tongue click (pop), made it much more interesting, to me:
http://soundcloud.com/imonacan/ovrn...t-8-1-pt1-clipe
I'll be uploading any future recordings of interest at this same location, if lucky enough to capture any worth sharing from the field. For anyone that does overnight audio recording, they already know there are countless hours and sessions of usually monitoring back nothing but normal nocturnal sounds.
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Those are some really interesting recordings and if you could I would like for you to submit a report to the BFRO web site.
http://www.bfro.net/GDB/submitfm.asp
I'm going to let one of our NY investigators know about them so he can have a listen right away.
PBYodeler |
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MarkB
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 83
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| Posted: February 6th, 2010 01:48 PM |
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imonacan,
Were you able to rule out woodpeckers for the knocks? The recordings were awsome to listen to! Very easy on my ears and crystal clear. Nice recording job. These all came from a H2 recorder? If so, I need to get one of those.
The scratching was very interesting and I thought I may be able to hear another inhale around the 2.30 mark, but not sure. Anything else Squatchy happen to you on that outing? MarkB
Seeking only the Truth |
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imonacan
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: February 6th, 2010 08:55 PM |
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Quote:
monongahela wrote:
Your recordings are very interesting. Not sure what that vocalizer is in the first recording, can't say I've heard a purported squatch recording like it, but there's always a first time for everything. The knocks are very interesting. Maybe the two sounds are from two different sources?
The vocalization in the third recording sounds dog-like to me, until the very end of the sound when it takes an upward whoop-like turn.
The fourth recording is quite interesting. I wonder what it is that would hang around and scratch on your mic so rhythmically?
I tried to download your recordings for a closer look, but I believe that hosting site doesn't allow download (I couldn't figure it out anyway). But in the short run through of your files, I thought I could make out some distant vocalizations and wood knocks. With a little filtering, amplification and looping, I might be able to hear them better.
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monongahela,
In the first clip with the banging set of knocks, I am guessing the vocalization came from a Barred Owl...or else something sounding like one. I'm thinking the set of knocks and vocalization were from two different sources, but really difficult (if not impossible)to tell for sure.
In the third clip, I was thinking maybe coyote on the wawhoooo sound, as there was a pack of them in the area. I've never heard a 'yote make a sound like that.... but I certainly haven't heard everything. I thought the whoooo sound at the end was interesting, also.
On the fourth recording, I've wondered myself about the rhythmic scratching. I tryed to reproduce the sound (as an experiment) by scratching the fake fur windscreen with my finger nail. I could make it sound close, but no cigar. When I lightly rubbed across it with a sharper object (like a stick), it sounded very close to the sctatching in the recording.
The soundcloud site has the option to allow downloading, but I chose not to because of a bad experience I had on another flie sharing site. I'd be happy to let you (or any other researcher) take a closer look at the files. I'll PM you about this. |
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imonacan
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: February 6th, 2010 09:06 PM |
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Quote:
Barb Kaz wrote:
imonacan, Maybe I'm easily impressed, but I thought the crunching footsteps recording was impressive. It definitely sounds like something bipedal trying to walk quietly. I know bears can also make popping and clicking sounds with their jaws/teeth, but the rest of the sounds on your recording just don't sound bear-like to me. Thanks for sharing.
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Barb,
I never knew bears (or any other muzzled animals) could produce popping or clicking sounds with their mouth. It's another thing to consider when monitoring the recordings, and some good info. |
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monongahela
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 349
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| Posted: February 6th, 2010 09:23 PM |
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imonacan,
I sent you a PM.
On that first recording, I thought the same, that it might be a barred owl chattering. But I haven't heard enough chatter calls from barred owls to really know the difference. Still a cool vocal and worth closer scrutiny.
I am looking at a way that would help distinguish whether overlapping sounds are from two different sources. There are applications out there known as stereo vector scopes. Most are hardware, but I think there are some software versions. I run linux however, and I haven't found any implemented in a form that I can run, but eventually I'll find a way. The vector scope can be used with a stereo microphone to determine which direction a call is coming from. If the vocalizer and the wood knocker in your recording are on divergent enough vectors, the scope might be able to plot a bearing toward each sound source, giving a clear indication that they're two different speakers. Could be a useful tool in the old audio analysis bag.
The whoop at the end of that vocal in the third recording reminded me of a similar recording Stan Courtney has on his website (stancourtney.com). He has some recordings of an unknown vocalizer in Colorado, who is interacting with coyotes. But the vocalizer has a unique call that is vaguely coyote-like, but also quite different. It too has an up-whoop nature to the call.
Monongahela
sites.google.com/site/mongahela |
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