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PBYodeler
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 Posted: May 21st, 2008 10:15 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

OK guys. This thread is for discussion of the Michigan expedition. Let's keep it on topic. If you have something else to talk about you're welcome to start a new thread.
PBYodeler
 
 
sweetcheeks
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 Posted: May 22nd, 2008 12:03 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Heyyyyyyyy Twinkie!!

Richard and I are looking into doing some searches ourselves. We are probably going to ask some of the more experienced what type of terrain we should look for when we begin the search in our surrounding area.

The bear population is minimal in our area so I may not spook as easy as I did it yoop!



Tisha
 
 
sweetcheeks
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 Posted: May 22nd, 2008 12:07 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

All I will say about the MI expedition is that I can't wait to return. I left sore, tired, hungry...did I say sore?? But I didn't care, I didn't want to stop walking through woods looking for signs and snapping pictures of stick structures.

I was so fascinated by it all! I also enjoyed meeting everyone! I can't wait to do it again.
 
 
AndrewP
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 Posted: May 22nd, 2008 09:25 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
I understand a reportee can be worried about his name being published or the county being published. But what good can a report be if it goes completely unpublished?


It goes unpublished to the general public, but not to the researchers, scientists, and investigators in the BFRO. We use this data when planning expeditions and reserching trends, etc...

We do often publish reports with no names and we extend out the area so that it is less specific; however, some witnesses directly request that the report not be published publically anyway. We work with them to see if we can edit the report location details so it can be published, but some witnesses still don't want it published for various reasons. When this happens, we honor those requests, not doing so would undermine the trust witnesses place in us and people would no longer be comfortable coming to us with their accounts.

Andy
Andy P.
MN BFRO Investigator

2009 Minnesota Expedition Organizer
 
 
Bill Boqs
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 Posted: May 22nd, 2008 09:54 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Merc:
The Michigan expedition site will probably remain under active investigation for some time and, in any event, is located (unfortunately) on readily accessible land -- both public and private. The details you've enquired about could very possibly permit anyone with a questionable agenda (including one of the "it's-going-to-take-a-body" factions) to dope out the location of the land. Detailed reporting from the expedition (in edited form) will probably be posted on this board in a while but, in the meantime, please understand that there's a very good reason why all expedition participants are required to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

The reasons for withholding certain details in any report are almost always motivated by (a) the welfare of the animals, (b) the privacy concerns of those reporting (or any landowners who might be involved) and (c) the success of any investigation which might be ongoing.

So, please, don't press for further details; let's keep this thread on-topic.
(Edited by Bill Boqs)
On the internet, no one knows you're a squatch. . .
 
 
Bobk
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 Posted: May 22nd, 2008 11:50 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Hi Folks,

In reading the latest postings, I noted that people observed numerous stick structures. I persume that these are either man-made, made by the wind or else made by something else. My question is do these structures look like teepees, are they on the ground or in forks of trees, are they wind falls? Can you describe what you are looking at when you mention stick structures?

I have a quick story about an experience I had back when I was in my late teens, which was a long time ago. This occured in June on a warm summer night in Alger Co., Michigan. I was leaving a friend's house about 1:00 A.M. and drove down an old logging road about 200 yrds. as I had to take a nature call. I know the area very well as I have hunted partridges there for years. As I got back in my truck, I heard a loud crack and something breaking branches about 150 yards as it was walking through the woods and it was getting closer. This had my attention and was making me leary as there is a maximum prison a short distance away and I thought there might have been an escape so I drove off.
Then I realized that an escapee wouldn't have made that much noise. There wasn't any mention of an escape having occurred on the news. This is leading up to my next question. When you are in the woods and hear the big foot, do they make a lot of noise when approaching you or are they more cautious? Can you hear them approaching from a distance of roughly 150 yards? In other words, breaking branches and making lots of noise as they are approaching the campsites to let you know that there is something big and strong heading towards the campsite and is trying to intimidate you? Or do you not hear them approaching until they are right outside of your campsite?

Thanks for answering my questions and I appreciate anyone's input on these questions.

Bob


Bobk MBG Member
 
 
Dave_F
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 Posted: May 22nd, 2008 12:03 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

It sounds like maybe the big guy wanted to let you know he was there. Seems like there are quite a few reports about BF letting people know he is around, especially when its a guy who stopped to take a leak. Its like BF doesn't want you marking his territory.
 
 
jude
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 Posted: May 22nd, 2008 12:24 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
Dave_F wrote:
Seems like there are quite a few reports about BF letting people know he is around, especially when its a guy who stopped to take a leak. Its like BF doesn't want you marking his territory.


Reminds me of the Snelgrove Lake incident when the rock throwing started.
Maine Expedition 08

"[A]t the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive, and the most ruthlessly skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new. This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. The collective enterprise of creative thinking and skeptical thinking, working together, keeps the field on track."
-- Carl Sagan in The Demon-Haunted World
 
 
wildmanmarty
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 Posted: May 22nd, 2008 02:40 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
jude wrote:


Reminds me of the Snelgrove Lake incident when the rock throwing started.


That's a really interesting point, jude. The rock/log throwing started right after the film crewman took a leak outside. Good catch!
How old would you be, if you didn't know how old you are?
 
 
Mercury
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 Posted: May 22nd, 2008 05:53 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Andi-Bill B.

Thanks. It is good to see that there is an attempt to make it public but also good to see you respect his/her wishes at the end.

ALso. I agree that specifics can ruin an ongoing investigation. We do NOT want that!! Thanks for the "other perspective".
Kevin A
 
 
nelson
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 Posted: May 22nd, 2008 09:00 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Hi Andy,when you guys where doing (knocks) is there a certain rythm you follow? when you saw the bipedal creature what was the conditions day,night ?? when you where doing the (push) I guess if I'm not being to (pushy) whats the terain like where you saw the two juveniles.Whats the most prominent stick structures in that area? thanks again
nelson
 
 
tkimball
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 Posted: May 23rd, 2008 01:28 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
sweetcheeks wrote:
Heyyyyyyyy Twinkie!!

Richard and I are looking into doing some searches ourselves. We are probably going to ask some of the more experienced what type of terrain we should look for when we begin the search in our surrounding area.

The bear population is minimal in our area so I may not spook as easy as I did it yoop!



Tisha


Hey Tisha! It was definitely an experience and a half up there. I'm so glad I got to meet you and Rich. The photos, documentation, and courage that you two have shown is without equal in my book.

I will cherish my Team Quest Amulet always!!!

tom
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
 
 
sweetcheeks
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 Posted: May 25th, 2008 07:36 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Awwww Shucks!! Thank you Tom.

Don't sell yourself short either! I really admire you. Thanks for joining our camp, we really enjoyed your company and your ideas.

I thought you would have eaten that Amulet by now! LOL

Tisha
 
 
nelson
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 Posted: June 1st, 2008 05:04 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

boy, this thread kinda dried up didnt it.
 
 
NurseVal
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 Posted: June 2nd, 2008 04:41 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

We're all still reeling from it, Nelson. give us a little time to process....
"Who is this that lights the wigwam?
With his great eyes lights the wigwam?"
HWL, The Song of Hiawatha
 
 
Smokebender
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 Posted: July 10th, 2008 12:26 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Is there any more info or photos regarding this trip?
MBG Member
 
 
Smokebender
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 Posted: August 16th, 2008 03:05 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
nelson wrote:
boy, this thread kinda dried up didnt it.
So, what's the news from this trip? Anyone?
MBG Member
 
 
nelson
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 Posted: August 16th, 2008 05:10 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I guess they aint talkin......just came back from up there, nothin happenen where I was, at least the bugs werent as bad as in july.
 
 
sweetcheeks
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 Posted: August 18th, 2008 03:40 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I'm hoping to get back that way so it's good to hear that the bugs aren't bad.

Did you see any stick structures? Ever since my first trip, I've been obscessed with them.
 
 
sweetcheeks
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 Posted: August 18th, 2008 03:52 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
Bobk wrote:
Hi Folks,

In reading the latest postings, I noted that people observed numerous stick structures. I persume that these are either man-made, made by the wind or else made by something else. My question is do these structures look like teepees, are they on the ground or in forks of trees, are they wind falls? Can you describe what you are looking at when you mention stick structures?

I have a quick story about an experience I had back when I was in my late teens, which was a long time ago. This occured in June on a warm summer night in Alger Co., Michigan. I was leaving a friend's house about 1:00 A.M. and drove down an old logging road about 200 yrds. as I had to take a nature call. I know the area very well as I have hunted partridges there for years. As I got back in my truck, I heard a loud crack and something breaking branches about 150 yards as it was walking through the woods and it was getting closer. This had my attention and was making me leary as there is a maximum prison a short distance away and I thought there might have been an escape so I drove off.
Then I realized that an escapee wouldn't have made that much noise. There wasn't any mention of an escape having occurred on the news. This is leading up to my next question. When you are in the woods and hear the big foot, do they make a lot of noise when approaching you or are they more cautious? Can you hear them approaching from a distance of roughly 150 yards? In other words, breaking branches and making lots of noise as they are approaching the campsites to let you know that there is something big and strong heading towards the campsite and is trying to intimidate you? Or do you not hear them approaching until they are right outside of your campsite?

Thanks for answering my questions and I appreciate anyone's input on these questions.

Bob




There are many different kinds of stick structures. If you did a google search you could probably find many more than what I could describe.
Although there are pictures available of stick structures... some could be formed naturally but when you see a structure that you know without a doubt couldn't be made by the wind then you need to ask yourself if humans frequent the area and if there is a possibility that it's human made. Structures are tricky except for those extraordinary finds that simply defy everything. I believe you tube has a video of some structures too... it's worth checking out.

As for the last question you had regarding big foot approaching... I've heard about the crunching and breaking of limbs and I've heard where they are completely silent so giving my best guess I would have to say if they make a lot of noise during approach... it's for intimidation. (just a guess because I'm still VERY new to all this and have a lot of questions myself.)
 
 
nelson
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 Posted: August 18th, 2008 04:27 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

nothing that really caught the eye. did some knocks at dusk then around 11:30, nothin happenen. was up there thursday thru sat. still need to spray for skeeters, but at least the flys where gone. good luck ! nelson
 
 
nelson
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 Posted: August 18th, 2008 05:32 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Oh I forgot, the wild blueberries or huckleberries are EVERYWHERE ! we even found some wild rasberries ! lots-o-bearsign.
 
 
Smitty8105
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 Posted: August 19th, 2008 01:00 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I have a question about stick structures and pics i have seen. I live in Michigan and these so called stick structures are ALL OVER MY PROPERTY, and look like nothing more then bent trees from a hard winter! Like a tree bent over another one making an X, if these are the kinda stick structures y'all are talking about, well i KNOW of at least 10 of them near a hunting stand of mine. If this IS the kinda stick structures y'all are referring too, who came up with the hole this is a possibility of a Bigfoot idea? I'm not saying what you guys found is not, but at least on my property it isn't but they sound very very similar! And if you take a drive along US-127 from Clare to Gaylord you will see tons of them along the express way!
 
 
R. Von Quest
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 Posted: August 20th, 2008 09:21 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Greetings,
Sorry for the delay, I don't spend much time on Forums.
Matt asked me to start posting my personal Field Reports
on the public Board. Names, locations, etc have been omitted
due to the sensitive nature of this research. Enjoy!


========= Thursday / May 15th ===========

Base Camp
1815: Arrived at Base Camp: ************. checked in with ****** paid $80 for 4 days of camping but only used 1 (first night). Made contact with Expedition Area Organizer: ***** of BFRO.

Setup camp and gathered for BFRO meeting/briefing to compare notes/determine specific game plan and deployment for the night’s maneuvers.

Personal/Notes: May want to arrive either Wednesday or very early Thursday to prepare for the Expedition – setup camp, study maps, setup GPS, calibrate equipment, explore area in general, deploy Camera Traps, get to know the group a bit, shop for local food, etc.

Target: **************
N **°**.***’ W**°**.***’ - WEATHER: nice / pt cloudy / 50’s / full moon coming this weekend
2200 – 0130: Scouting Ops down what appeared to be logging roads. Split into small teams spaced out in intervals. My team consisted of myself, ***** and *****… then *****. Thermal Viewer started with ***** then I took over for the remainder of the night’s maneuvers. ***** used my Night Vision (gen I) and my Directional Sound Amplification System (DSAS).



[ another group reports of ‘stench’ in area ahead of us ]

Personal Notes: Want Thermal Viewer – very cool! Had an amazing time. Wanted to return during the daylight to scout for prints – very muddy – ideal conditions.




============ Friday / May 16th ==========

Base Camp
1100: Briefing & Presentation. Cleared by ***** to explore Target: *****

Target: ********
(no cords recorded) - WEATHER: nice / rain in area / upper 50’s
1600 – 1830: Solo Exploration with *****. Eerie back in that area. Walked main road after gate until we found a service road witch took us back up to a ridge. Followed that to a T, took left all the way to dead end and then traversed into the woods. High-ground, very dry. Very, very quiet. Nothing to Report.

Base Camp
1900: Debriefing / Briefing

Target: ************
N **°**.***’ W**°**.***’ - WEATHER: rain / very cold & windy / 30’s & 40’s
2000 – 0600: Setup camp at what should be ‘*******’ but was coined by ************************. I’m honored. Setup Camera Trap with ***** NORTH of camp just beyond tree-line behind a group of pines. Set out bait as well: apples, corn, garlic. Several joined us in camp, approx 8-10.





Rain started back up just after dusk. Very cold and only got colder through the night! Everyone left fairly early and ***** and I were left all alone in camp all night. We stayed up all night sitting back-to-back sharing the Night Vision. Rain does stop but still very cold. The surrounding area seems to ‘come alive’. I have to account the noises to the rain. Everything is dripping, slippery, and water-logged adding weight to the branches and vegetation. I did hear what sounded like ‘something’ big moving in the brush just after the rain stopped NORTH of camp, sounded close. Heard this twice. ***** on edge all night. Kept fire burning. Noise dies down. Bed by 0600hrs.

[ another group reports patterned ‘knocking’ Friday morning. Also, the best all weekend was the Class A sighting reported by *****. Way to go! I’m jealous ]

Personal/Notes: There was a woodpecker that starts in every morning at dawn that was between us and ******* Camp everyday I was in the field. Just a thought.




============ Saturday / May 17th ========

Base Camp
1200: Debriefing / Briefing

Target: *********************
N **°**.***’ W**°**.***’ – WEATHER: amazing day / 50’s & 60’s
1500 – 1600: Attempting ‘Drive’ with the group. Split into small teams in a long line. We walked NORTH while other line walked SOUTH hoping to stir something up. A big hairy something. We met at a large pond and stream in the middle. Unable to pass. [ unable to confirm if something large did flee out to the EAST – was there something reported? ]

1800: Several others joined us in camp, 8+. ***** and I set out and explore EAST of camp. Large X, ‘TeePee’ and possible Nest all within feet of each other. Also noticed these ‘corridors’ that many speak of. Believe there were 3, all leading to this ‘Nest’. Very impressive. Looks promising.








Also we followed one of these ‘corridors’ EAST and we found what appears to be old tracks from maybe last year that follow this ‘corridor’. If true, these prints were 15” long with approx 4’ - 5’ stride. Followed these for 50’ or so. Hard to say for sure to due to age, and the probable tracks were intermittent due to swampy terrain. Bait was placed at Nest: used ***** 2 apples, 2 corn, and ***** own Trail-mix (sorry *****).

2300 – 0100: Fire was built by group and left burning all night. ***** and I leave to walk all the way down *********** and then down ***********. Night Vision and DSAS at the ready. We walked the full distance, under 2 miles or so. Weather was amazing. Part cloud cover and almost full moon. Right out of X-Files. As we approach the end of ****, we both felt very creeped out. (this was not verbalized at the time) We both stopped to look around and listen. You could see pretty deep into the woods at this time so I raised my Night Vision to look NORTH and we hear this ‘Whoop’. A warning sign or reaction to the Night Vision? Some believe they know a little about our technology. I find this hard to believe. I do have the IR illuminator on the NV as well. Some believe they can see this light. Both the Camera Trap and my NV have this lighting, and even the human eye can see these to some extent. This makes the most sense to me. Back to camp by approx 0100hrs. Decided to stay up all night again. *****, ***** and I stayed up the entire night.

[ At ******* Camp an individual found a curious clump of fur/hair. Brown with black splotches or spots. Longer than I’d expect from small game. Advised ***** of the Forensics equipment I have, but forgot to contact him after Sunday’s meeting. ***** and ***** report a large dark figure on the logging road this night for their walk WEST of ****** Camp ]

0400: Along distance away… a ‘Howl’! Sounded very good. Was witnessed by myself and *****. Was distinct enough to shake ***** from dosing off in his chair. Also woke ***** up who was not sleeping too deep due to the cold. Must be in the 30’s by now! I can only guess it was from the NORTHEAST. Did not repeat. A single howl about 5 or 6 seconds in duration. Was this Bigfoot? Maybe. Was too far away to really take in the cadence and timbre of the classic sasquatch scream. Never went to bed.




============ Sunday / May 18th ========

0800: *****, ***** and I explore EAST along that logging road looking for tracks possibly left by what ***** and ***** saw last night. We walked a long ways. No definitive prints found. Note: there was a pine tree at the location and distance, middle of the road from your perspective right after the bend. Was a single pine 7’-8’ tall with a large tree right behind it. This would cause a large dark figure-like silhouette in that moonlit forest. Possible? Was there definite movement?

Base Camp
1100: Final debriefing and goodbyes. We decide to stay 1 last night all alone…

Target: ******************
N **°**.***’ W**°**.***’ – WEATHER: amazing day / 50’s & 60’s / best weather yet / almost no wind now
1345: I park my SUV and we get out to walk down into camp and close by to the NORTH/NORTHEAST, there were 3 very loud and distinct ‘Knocks’!!! Almost too good to be true. Best I heard yet. Spaced apart enough to account for a ‘swing’. We called out on the Radios to see if anyone was at ******* Camp. No reply. Was anyone knocking near us at this time? (later Monday late morning when ***** and ***** returned to grab their gear, after staying in a Motel, he stated that no one was out in the field Sunday besides us) Shortly after this I moved my Camera Trap – no pictures or bait disturbed – to a new location EAST of camp back behind the X, TeePee and Nest for a wide and deep view. The Camera was placed 6’ off the ground on a tree facing WEST towards camp. More bait was scattered around in a wide area using the rest of ***** food: 3 ears of corn and 6 apples. (I hope that was ok ***** since you did not return) We continued to explore again much deeper EAST of camp and then SOUTHEAST of camp. We returned to camp via that logging road SOUTHEAST of camp as not to trip the Camera Trap.



1545: Perhaps we never noticed all this before, but ***** spots possible structures all around our camp now that were never noticed before all weekend. Including a fairly fresh ‘Asterisks’ marking my SUV. (see her posts for the pics) This ‘Asterisks’ was only feet from where I was parking. If this was built this weekend – wow!



{1730: we sit down to eat a much welcomed hot meal. We sit on the ground facing each other and enjoy some real food finally: scrambled eggs, sausage, and baked beans. Little did we know just then the Camera Trap is triggered and captures 3 shots of a dark shadow moving in the distance between the Camera and the tree-line EAST of where we were sitting eating. (see further below for animated loop) Just a shadow?}



2135: Heard another loud distinct single ‘Knock’ NORTH of camp. Right at dusk. A great ‘Knock’!

2150: Attempted to deploy my own ‘Knocking’ using *****'s stick & tree he had been using earlier in the weekend. Deployed 3 loud awesome knocks. No reply.

2230: I’m sure it was all in our head knowing that we were all alone. The Radio was dead silent. But we felt more creeped out than ever before. I don’t wavier easy, but I felt we needed to turn in early tonight because the forest was closing in on us. My blood ran cold, and the coyotes yelped and howled closer and closer…

I deployed the DSAS to record all night but it only captured about 4+ hours worth for some reason. We turned in early and slept until about 0900hrs. I was completely exhausted!






============= Monday / May 19th ========

0900: We head EAST back into the woods to retrieve the Camera Trap and check the bait. All bait is accounted for and undisturbed. I pull the SD card from the Camera Trap and check it on my Digital point-n-shoot Camera. We find the three shots of a shadow some distance from the Camera Trap. It’s a Moultrie GAMESPY i40 – set for 3-Shot Burst – the time delay between pics is about 10-13 seconds.


I programmed an animated loop here of the 3 shots to show possible movement
(about 25 seconds for all 3 shots) What do you think?



Late morning while taking follow-up shots with point-n-shoot Camera from the perspective of the Camera Trap for scale & reference, ***** and ***** show up to retrieve their gear and pack up for the day.



That’s when I asked about anyone else in the area referencing the ‘Knocking’. We showed them the possible structures right around camp that went unnoticed all weekend by the entire group until Sunday by ***** and I. Curious… We all broke down camp and were back on the road by 1300hrs. Heavy-hearted to see it all end but renewed with a sense of unbridled passion to continue to spelunk the conundrum!

Personal/Notes: Need to take more pictures! Will have a better grasp of new equipment for next time. Will remember to have a system in place for exploring area systematically. Spent about $2K and forgot to buy a $10 watch. Will record better time next time. Kept a journal, but may be more efficient to use Dictaphone instead. Need to have point-n-shoot camera/Video camera ready at ALL times – even while driving to capture a road crossing or something off the road. Next time will leave a Camera Trap running for a good 4 months or so and retrieve in the fall.





-- Richard Von Quest
End of Journal

NOTE: The Camera Trap is still set to Central Time - sorry. Add an hour.

_______________________________
Richard Von Quest
BFRO - WI/MN/IA/IL/Can
The Q Files.com


(Edited by R. Von Quest)
 
 
BethinFL
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 Posted: August 20th, 2008 12:36 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Thanks for sharing. I am very interested in that animated loop! I'm not usually good at "seeing" things in pictures, but my eyes went right to that spot. At first I thought it was the shadow of the trees changing due to the sun moving, but after looking a couple more times, you can tell that isn't it. Plus, then I read where it was 25 seconds for the three shots, so definitely not a long time lapse. To me, it looks like something looking toward the camera and then turning slightly to the side and beginning to move. Cool!
 
 
Smokebender
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 Posted: August 20th, 2008 02:47 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I enjoyed the update. Very interesting. Good photos too. Thanks.
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nelson
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 Posted: August 21st, 2008 03:05 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

THANKYOU very much, I enjoy reading all that can post their experiances
 
 
Savataba
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 Posted: August 22nd, 2008 11:10 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

great read.

On the animation, there is a second shadow present on the far right at the same elevation. the first frame it is not there, but when the center shadow turns the other one appears for the 2 frames. Could it be they were moving on all fours in that ditch and one stuck it's head up to look around and then turned to it's companions and told them to stay down before diving under the field of vision?
 
 
eengholm
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 Posted: August 26th, 2008 10:54 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I also agree to this being a great read.

R. Von Quest, I noticed you had done a size comparison to the photos taken from the Camera Trap and I thought you had that angle comparison right on! (I don't claim to be a photo expert either)

I am curious to know if you had a opportunity to check out the area along the tree line where you have a photo of what you thought might be something watching you? that photo caught me attention as well.
 
 
R. Von Quest
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 Posted: August 27th, 2008 11:25 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

eengholm,
Since we were all alone, we decided to try and be completely non-threating. We sat on the ground and acted like we were ignoring the woods around us while we ate and rested while the sun melted into the horizon. I snaped that pic quick and continued to see if it moved ready to give chase with miniDV in hand... it never moved... at least in the weening hours of daylight we had left. I'm sure it was just a play of light & logs...
 
 




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