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ssm129
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 10:51 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

It's a shame the team did not have much luck during their field research considering the area where they were investigating had ALOT of Class A's. I still enjoyed this episode, though. It was much better than the Rhode Island one last week. It definitely sounds like there is a 9 footer in the Kettle River area that isn't afraid to show itself during daylight.
 
 
The Bone
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 11:02 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

cool episode
not too much in the "proof department"....

but i do like the line "alot of maybe's equal a possibly"
i have a feeling they are gunna use that alot and make it a tag-line for the show
11.19.11 saw one in NY, Broome Co
 
 
azjohn
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 11:39 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

for me, very disappointed in this episode. With all the sightings and about 75% of the crowd having a class A sighting I was hoping for a litttle more from the field.

Still bugs me when only one of the field researchers hear's something and they dub a sound in like everyone should have heard it. And then they thought they were being stalked but not a sound, come on.

I would have thought with 100 hours of tape they would have come up with some better highlights. Oh well, next weeks show looks really good. But then I thought the same about Minnesota
OCT 2011 AZ expedition member
 
 
The Bone
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 11:44 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

i would have liked to see what BOBO's hair sampled ended up as
but
i know that takes a few weeks of analysis
so
it they might not have had time before the final film was cut
11.19.11 saw one in NY, Broome Co
 
 
harristotle
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 11:55 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I found it to be an interesting episode. Not amazing, but still enjoyable.
After a certain point the evidence can't be ignored...
 
 
ssm129
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 12:16 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I agree with The Bone. I'd love to know what the hair sample ended up being.

When this season's Finding Bigfoot first aired, I was surprised to see that it had a PG rating. However, after watching last night's episode with Bobo letting loose with a curse word and Ranae talking about a male body part "finally descending", NOW I know why it has that rating.
 
 
AndrewP
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 12:18 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Having been there for the shooting, I'm a bit frustrated at how the show was cut. They cut out all of the critical analysis discussion Renee and I had about the sound recordings and the ecology of the area. Basically, I ended up looking like a stiff idiot willing to turn any noise into a squatch. Also for the comparison, they used the howl that I felt was most like the wolves and they didn't use the several good howls. The good one they later played at the very end of the episode. Why that howl was not used for the analysis, I don't know.

There are other things that annoyed me, given what I know about the area, but I'll keep them to myself for now. At least they did the witnesses justice. The people who live in that area are awesome and I feel privileged to know them and to have worked with them over the five years that we've been monitoring that area.

As for not getting any activity, it doesn't surprise me. The squatches up there have never responded to us. They call when they want to for their reasons. One is better off putting a camp in an area that shows signs of their recent activity, making a fire, and playing a flute while watching with night vision than you are going out trying to illicit them. They tend to just watch, though we do get paralleled fairly often in one area, but the team couldn't get into that area well due to water issues.

Andy
Andy P.
 
 
The Bone
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 12:19 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

thanks for that Andy
11.19.11 saw one in NY, Broome Co
 
 
AndrewP
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 12:21 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
ssm129 wrote:
I agree with The Bone. I'd love to know what the hair sample ended up being.


We've taken samples from those poles many times in the past. Most are likely bear, but we do find some finer hairs up higher. I had some of these looked at several years ago when they had posted the info on hair on BFRO.net and they came back as "probable sasquatch."

Andy


Andy P.
 
 
wendyjean
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 01:12 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I have to agree with azjohn on this week's episode - it was a huge disappointment for me as a viewer (better than RI, but that isn't saying very much). Obviously, this place is a "HOT" spot. The sheer numbers of the witnesses packing that hall were astounding - obviously something is happening in this area. But it seems as if the crew diminishes these peoples' experiences by at points looking like 'fanantics' rather than researchers - at least it seems it is edited this way. For instance, hearing the recording of the wolves howling and BoBo stating undeniably that Sasquatches mimic sounds, rather than phrasing his response as "in other cases, there have been reports that..." Then the constant "Did you hear that?" - what? we out in tv land didn't hear anything. As a viewer, I am not expecting a Sasquatch to walk out of the woods and introduce him/herself and stand their for a photo opportunity - but what I do expect is for them to show some restraint, some scientific method of researching what is going on. For instance - those broken tree markers - how thick in diameter were those trees? how high were those broken off? Were all of them snapped off at approximately the same height? Were they 'snapped' in one direction? Were they twisted? Maybe some scientific discussion about the force needed to break something like that - could a small microburst have caused that damage? In season 1, at least they tried to 'recreate' some of what they were giving us as evidence (BoBo bending the metal plant hanger, smashing the bird feeder) whereas this season it seems as if we are expected to take what they say as fact without any discussion about whether it is undeniably evidence of Sasquatch activity or whether there could be some other explanation.
 
 
Tom Thomas
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 01:48 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

What I like about some of the episodes it gives me an idea as to where to go do some Squatching in other states. Can you imagine what you would do if a 11' + Sasquatch stepped out in front of you on a game trail? That is 5' taller than I am. He would make BoBo look like a midget. He must weigh in excess of 1000 pounds.
Trapper Tom

MO-09 exp
TN-10 exp
TN-11 exp
 
 
PBYodeler
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 02:47 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

http://www.northamericanbigfoot.com...ield-notes.html
PBYodeler
 
 
harristotle
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 03:01 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
wendyjean wrote:
I have to agree with azjohn on this week's episode - it was a huge disappointment for me as a viewer (better than RI, but that isn't saying very much). Obviously, this place is a "HOT" spot. The sheer numbers of the witnesses packing that hall were astounding - obviously something is happening in this area. But it seems as if the crew diminishes these peoples' experiences by at points looking like 'fanantics' rather than researchers - at least it seems it is edited this way. For instance, hearing the recording of the wolves howling and BoBo stating undeniably that Sasquatches mimic sounds, rather than phrasing his response as "in other cases, there have been reports that..." Then the constant "Did you hear that?" - what? we out in tv land didn't hear anything. As a viewer, I am not expecting a Sasquatch to walk out of the woods and introduce him/herself and stand their for a photo opportunity - but what I do expect is for them to show some restraint, some scientific method of researching what is going on. For instance - those broken tree markers - how thick in diameter were those trees? how high were those broken off? Were all of them snapped off at approximately the same height? Were they 'snapped' in one direction? Were they twisted? Maybe some scientific discussion about the force needed to break something like that - could a small microburst have caused that damage? In season 1, at least they tried to 'recreate' some of what they were giving us as evidence (BoBo bending the metal plant hanger, smashing the bird feeder) whereas this season it seems as if we are expected to take what they say as fact without any discussion about whether it is undeniably evidence of Sasquatch activity or whether there could be some other explanation.


I have to agree with you about keeping it scientific. The only way skeptics or the scientific community will start to take sasquatch research seriously, without a body, is if the people researching them are 100% scientific about it. There is enough scientific evidence that continually arises for this to be reasonable.
After a certain point the evidence can't be ignored...
 
 
wendyjean
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 03:04 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Thankyou for posting that line PBYodeler. It really helps hear from his perspective what was going on, what his thoughts were about what he was hearing/seeing.
 
 
AndrewP
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 03:27 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
harristotle wrote:


I have to agree with you about keeping it scientific. The only way skeptics or the scientific community will start to take sasquatch research seriously, without a body, is if the people researching them are 100% scientific about it. There is enough scientific evidence that continually arises for this to be reasonable.


IMHO, they did keep it scientific, those parts just didn't make it out of the editing room. When I was there we discussed the alternates, the resonings, etc... We even went into the ecology of the area. The cast was examining everything and being very skeptical. However, none of that made the episode. I'm guessing the cast were doing similar things when I wasn't around and were similarily cut as well. One of my biggest frustrations now that I've seen what goes on is just how much of the science gets cut in favor of the sensational.


Andy P.
 
 
PBYodeler
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 03:44 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
wendyjean wrote:
Thankyou for posting that line PBYodeler. It really helps hear from his perspective what was going on, what his thoughts were about what he was hearing/seeing.


If you just bookmark Cliff's blog page he does this for each episode.
PBYodeler
 
 
harristotle
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 04:18 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
AndrewP wrote:


IMHO, they did keep it scientific, those parts just didn't make it out of the editing room. When I was there we discussed the alternates, the resonings, etc... We even went into the ecology of the area. The cast was examining everything and being very skeptical. However, none of that made the episode. I'm guessing the cast were doing similar things when I wasn't around and were similarily cut as well. One of my biggest frustrations now that I've seen what goes on is just how much of the science gets cut in favor of the sensational.




Definitely understandable... oh the joys of tv. I'm glad we have this forum where we can discuss the real facts behind the episodes more in depth!
After a certain point the evidence can't be ignored...
 
 
Gracenote
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 05:16 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

What I think is, the producers want to get viewers, and to do that initially they have to have things bump in the night, scary eyes, campfire stories ect. The average person who is watching the Bachelor and Toddlers and Tiaras will scan right past a group of people comparing droppings with other droppings, or thirty minutes of walking down a trail not finding anything. They need some excitement. Once the show gets a good steady audience and ratings, Matt & the group can show us more of the research part. Otherwise it could only be an internet show dedicated to the sometimes dull but necessary, patient study. I am more than willing to wait and let the show pull in lots of viewers. I enjoy seeing how they do thier jobs.
 
 
RealNewby
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 06:20 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
AndrewP wrote:
Basically, I ended up looking like a stiff idiot willing to turn any noise into a squatch.

Andy


Andy-
If it's any solace, for those of us that know you personally, not a single person thinks you're an idiot, and the vast majority don't think you're stiff.

Seriously though, I would love to hear more about your conversation with Renae about the recordings. Did you have any luck convincing her it wasn't a wolf or other known local animal?

T.
To squatch, or not to squatch? That is the question.
 
 
Bob Fin
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 09:10 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Andy, I truly don't think you ended up looking like a "stiff idiot willing to turn any noise into a squatch." During the show, you said which ones sounded like wolves and the one that didn't. I wouldn't worry about it! Keep up the good work!
Haven't seen one yet...
 
 
northcountrygirl
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 09:54 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Andyp
You absolutely did not come across as anything other than an intelligent researcher. I take it as read the production crew are going to simplify and sensationalize. Though bored with the simplistic I'm not bored with the team doing the work. I'll use the Cliffnotes (pun intended) to flesh out the events of each episode and will continue to watch. BTW, Cliff's new howl is FANTASTIC!
 
 
monongahela
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 10:11 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Andy P. I'm watching the episode now and I agree, very disappointed in how they've used (or not used) your recordings.

I can't imagine picking a less likely vocal to contrast with the wolf howls than the one they did. There were other calls in yours and Rick's recordings that were MUCH more unique, clearly powerful, and easily not mistaken for a wolf.

When I studied your recordings back in 2009 I found several characteristics that set them apart. And since then I've recorded similar calls in Georgia, and heard others from Alabama. And neither of those states have wild wolf populations.
Monongahela | http://sasquatchbioacoustic.blogspot.com | Attended BFRO Tennessee 2010, Pennsylvania 2011, Ohio 2012, West Virginia 2012
 
 
Cathy
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 Posted: January 16th, 2012 11:14 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I haven't seen the first one of the season yet, but did get to see this one today at my daughters. Yay, my son in law is now hooked on the show, so they will be trying to save them for me. I don't know if there is a time limit on how long shows can saved on their tv, because the first episode was not saved. Maybe they forgot to. Anyway, they actually watch it for entertainment, they aren't necessarily in to it, especially my daughter, they don't understand how the production cuts out so much and I tried to explain that to her. I think she thinks they may be out there, but she's like I had been for so long, if they are, they are Way out there, like Way out in the wilderness areas, not around human habitations. She kind of thinks they (the cast) look like a bunch of yahoos. I like the show a lot. It's funny how different people take to it. I will do my best to see next week's episode, and they'll be saving it for me! It looked exciting in the previews. I told her I think Bobo is cute and she thinks that's funny! She said he looks like a squatch!
Cathy
 
 
HBMay2011
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 Posted: January 17th, 2012 12:17 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I think some episodes are more or less hit and miss, but last night's was actually pretty good. I agree with Ranae, that recording could have been a wolf, not necessarily a 'Squatch. I do appreciate Ranae and Cliff's scientific approach to the show, for certain. Looking forward to next week's.
 
 
peltboy25
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 Posted: January 17th, 2012 01:52 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I'm starting to think that the show needs to be more of a quarterly special, and not a weekly episode. There just isn't enough quality A/V evidence captured to keep the shows interesting week to week. Until some new evidence comes in that the crew can investigate, all we get are locals with stories and BFRO running around the woods seamingly randomly. I think we're watering down the content and frankly, this will ultimately undermine the legitimacy of the entire quest. Animal Planet should continue to fund the expeditions, but air periodic specials when the content has more impact. Thoughts?
 
 
BethinFL
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 Posted: January 17th, 2012 02:15 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I like that there seem to be so many daytime sightings. I found that very interesting. I also really like Bobo's new "howl". At first I thought he was doing some samurai chatter or something, and then I realized what he said and I laughed out loud. My 13-year-old son asked, "did he just say what I think he just said?" I also liked when Cliff called for Renae and Bobo answered, "this is Renae." I do wish there could be more analysis of the science type things like the trees snapped off and the hair samples. Viewers are kind of left hanging. Trees are snapped and there is hair, so what? What does that mean? What's the next step?
 
 
minnesota dave24
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 Posted: January 17th, 2012 02:37 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Andy- I dont think you came off as an idiot or stiff at all. Also I laughed to myself when Bobo was gathering hair samples, it was an absolute flashback. I remember you had just finished pointing out some wolf scat, and showing us a trail, then went over to that exact pole. I know it was that same pole, and you pulled some hairs out right there.

One thing I thing was awesome was seeing the arial views of the bog... I did not go bog walking on the expedition, and now I regret it. Google maps doesnt get close enough to give an idea. But when you see the amphibvehicle disturbing water on what looks like normal grass, you get a much better sense of what you are actually dealing with on a bog.
Many things go 'bump' in the night, things that wouldn't scare you at all, if you could see 'em go bump in the light. - My New Mantra-

Minnesota Expedition 2009
 
 
RealNewby
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 Posted: January 17th, 2012 03:41 PM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
BethinFL wrote:
I like that there seem to be so many daytime sightings. I found that very interesting. I also really like Bobo's new "howl". At first I thought he was doing some samurai chatter or something, and then I realized what he said and I laughed out loud. My 13-year-old son asked, "did he just say what I think he just said?" I also liked when Cliff called for Renae and Bobo answered, "this is Renae." I do wish there could be more analysis of the science type things like the trees snapped off and the hair samples. Viewers are kind of left hanging. Trees are snapped and there is hair, so what? What does that mean? What's the next step?


I was listening to Cliff's video blog yesterday and he was talking about the differences bewteen a documentary and reality TV. A documentary is focused on the subject where reality TV is focused on the personalities involved. He said this is reality TV and they are really not that interested in going down the path of having this a full blown scientific show.

I guess it's much easier to have a bunch of folks with great personalities out in the woods than it is to pay for all the lab time it would take to analyze everything that comes out of the show. Oh well.
To squatch, or not to squatch? That is the question.
 
 
rayce
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 Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:30 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

I was wondering about the report where the squatch was looking in the mobile home window. I have no clue how much time had passed since that sighting, but does anyone know if they looked for fingerprints or hair samples that might have snagged on the mobile homes aluminum siding? Since they didn't look for prints, I'm guessing this is an old sighting?
 
 
exennium
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 Posted: January 18th, 2012 05:21 AM  Edit Post Delete post Back to top

Quote:
monongahela wrote:
Andy P. I'm watching the episode now and I agree, very disappointed in how they've used (or not used) your recordings.

I can't imagine picking a less likely vocal to contrast with the wolf howls than the one they did. There were other calls in yours and Rick's recordings that were MUCH more unique, clearly powerful, and easily not mistaken for a wolf.


TOTALLY agree with Monongahela!

I was there that night during the 09 MN Exped when the vocalizations were heard and even recorded them myself. There were other howls recorded that night that were much much more powerful, intense and different from wolves, but the Finding Bigfoot producers didn't use those howls to compare in the show, even though they had them in their possession. This is inexcusable! I heard the vocalizations live that night and it clearly stood out from the wolf howls.

The production company should be ashamed of themselves for blatantly botching the presentation of this quality audio evidence. Hang in there AndrewP. You did as well as you could.


WA BFRO Investigator. Attended: Washington Cascades '09, Washington Olympic Peninsula '09, Minnesota '09, New Mexico '11, Washington Olympic Peninsula One '11, Nebraska '11, Washington Area One '13, Oregon Cascades '13, New Mexico '13.
Organizer: Western Washington '12, Washington Cascades '12.
www.youtube.com/user/studysasquatch
 
 




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