BFRO / What's New - America and Canada / Archives / 06-19-2008 / What about Rabies or Mental illness from inbreeding

Topie: What about Rabies or Mental illness from inbreeding Page: 1 2
February 20th, 2008 12:55 PM
mbleyhl Are there any thoughts of illness like rabies or Mental defects causing aggressive behaviors in BF Do these things happen with Apes?
February 20th, 2008 02:41 PM
Goldilocks I would think they can get both since they seem to be so close to humans. I also wondered about trichinosis if they are catching pigs to eat like I thought I remember reading in one post.
February 20th, 2008 09:15 PM
Andy Mental illnesses cannot be caught from other people, although there is some suspicion that some forms of mood disorders may show up in her child years later when a pregnant woman catches a disease (maybe strep) in the first or second trimester. This has not been proven. Otherwise, the incidence of schizophrenia in a human population is about 1%. The incidence of mental illness in other animals, to my knowledge, is not well-documented.

Any mammal can catch rabies--but it would have to come into contact with saliva or spinal fluid/brain tissue--it would have to eat or have close contact with or be bitten by a sick animal. I did read that you can catch rabies from bats just by being in one of the caves that houses them--without any physical contact.
February 20th, 2008 09:36 PM
mbleyhl I didn't mean to infer you could "Catch" metal illness I should not have lumped it in with Rabies. My thought was with limited population and possible line breeding the chances of genetic mutations go up included in these mutations are things like fragil X and other forms of retardation in humans. Has there been any thoughts on these types of syndromes happening to BFs does it happen in Apes?

Any thoughts on why it wouldn't happen
February 20th, 2008 10:09 PM
cowboyman All I know is this,,, If I hear banjo music wafting through the woods, I am getting out of there.
February 21st, 2008 07:01 AM
cowboyman wrote:
All I know is this,,, If I hear banjo music wafting through the woods, I am getting out of there.

That's both funny and frightening. There's an image in my head that I did not need.
February 21st, 2008 08:29 AM
rick_nester Why wouldn't Sasquatch be afflicted with other maladies such as deafness? blindness? deformities? It happens in the wild, right?
February 21st, 2008 09:51 AM
BethinFL We had discussed this a little bit on another thread about the white/gray Bigfoots, possible albino traits, blue eyes with deafness, cataracts, etc. Plus, we've seen reports about deformed tracks. I would think anything like that might be possible.
February 21st, 2008 11:38 AM
Kate1980 I think you'll find that in wildlife, deformities and mutations don't survive long, either the mother abandons them at birth or they become easy prey for something else. I do know however that albino deer can reach adulthood living in the wild and albino is a mutation, same goes for the white tigers, those are mutations that rarely ever survive in the wild.

February 21st, 2008 12:15 PM
cowboyman I'll agree with Kate here,mutation are normally determental, rarley are deformaties positive. Physical and mental abnormalities are associated with other problems as a general rule, such as the case for white tigers, they normally have eyesight issues, a major flaw in a predator. Prey animals are easier pickings as well.
Another thing I have noticed as well. In a social based group, extremely weak members are normally left behind or exiled from the group.Do to the problems they create in group safety.

February 21st, 2008 12:29 PM
Andy And then there are cats with 6 toes and other little oddities that don't seem to matter much survival-wise.

Also there are some mutations that arise in the egg/sperm & that just happen X number of times per 100,000.
Those individuals probably would not be tolerated in a subsistence living economy.
A baby with any sort of visible "defect" or no muscle control, whatever---in early human history (even in Rome and beyond--way beyond) these children were just not cared for or fed and allowed or left outside to die so that the mother could heal up and produce another, hopefully healthy child, as soon as possible.

It sounds barbaric, but a BF would probably do the same thing. What choice would there be?
February 22nd, 2008 10:17 AM
Kate1980 wrote:
I think you'll find that in wildlife, deformities and mutations don't survive long, either the mother abandons them at birth or they become easy prey for something else. I do know however that albino deer can reach adulthood living in the wild and albino is a mutation, same goes for the white tigers, those are mutations that rarely ever survive in the wild.


There has been a lot of talk about BF having qualities close to our own. Does anyone really think that a female BF would give birth to a deformed or challenged baby and leave it to fend for itself? I'm more inclined to believe that the tracks that are found that show deformities are either from an injury or not enough to slow one down to weed it out. You could even hypthesize that the weaker ones could fall prey to other animals. Short of a large bear or a pack of wolves-coyotes, what else would see something that big, even physically challenged, as a meal?
February 22nd, 2008 11:44 AM
Andy If as Clindsay says, BF has qualities close to our own, then it is certain that any baby who is born with obvious defects will be abandoned at birth as both Kate and I have said.

The sensibilities we have in the here and now did not always exist.

Abandoning new babies to die was common human behavior throughout human history and across all cultures until the invention of ICUs, sophisticated medicines and social support. (In Rome and elsewhere in Europe it was called "exposing" because the child was left outside.)
It was a brutal reality of life that such a child could not be cared for.

Even here in the US, newly-born babies with dreadful and wholly untreatable conditions were simply covered and put into a corner of the nursery until they passed away. Babies with terrible or untreatable, but not usually frightful or fatal disorders (such as retardation, epilepsy, Down's syndrome and a host of others) were warehoused in State Hospitals, where they were many times sterilized so as not to pass on their "feeblemindedness" --that's what it used to be called. (We are talking up through the 1950's). Sounds horrifying now, but I assure you, it was daily life then.

Often, in the middle ages or earlier and up through the 19th century even one child out of a set of twins or triplets born to country peasants or city-poor mothers might be "removed" by the midwife. They were considered "evil" or "unlucky" --but the reality was that having to nurse 2 babies made it less likely that either would survive.

When practiced this way, this is a very powerful behavior, in terms of not perpetrating any sorts of defects that are hereditary.
And of course, this is exactly the same thing as any animal mother shoving the runt of the litter out of the nest so as not to waste scarce resource on it.

A Sasquatch mom is likely not going to care about something small like an extra finger or toe, but something more odd or more disruptive, like a harelip that would prevent nursing, or a crooked leg that would prevent walking......she wouldn't have the luxury of caring for that baby.

February 22nd, 2008 12:48 PM
LouBob Genetics is revealing a lot about heredity we didn't know before. ADD, depression and bi-polar disorder are now known to be hereditary. Autism has now been shown to have genetic links, letting vaccinations off the hook. So there very well may be some mental disorders that can be passed down in BF, assuming it has the capacity to suffer from such disorders, of course.

And I agree with everything Andy just said.

February 22nd, 2008 04:21 PM
cowboyman We, as humans only live behind a thin veil of civilization, this being more predominate in Western European decent. Even today those qualities we admire in our own culture as strengths are quite literaly viewed as weaknesses elsewhere.
Today we grimace at the news of some mother leaving her child to die in the night, yet Spartan culture was based on this very act.. Any child unable to survive a specific amount of time died! The mother then concieved once more in the hopes of birthing a stronger child....Leaving someone to die in a catastrophe here seems calloused in other places it is considered good sense.

We are not far removed from our wild survival instincts, the ability to do these things is much closer than most people would believe possible. It has taken hundred,no, thousands of years of learning from religion, philosophy,and various other influences to overcome the animals we are.
(Edited by cowboyman)
February 22nd, 2008 05:20 PM
Rachel L Whenever I watch the news I end up thinking people these days are more animal-like than ever before.

I agree with the other comments here though...a BF with a mental illness or something else wrong with it probably wouldn't live very long. Now, a rabid BF? That's a scary thought.

February 22nd, 2008 06:29 PM
cowboyman I would agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY!
February 22nd, 2008 07:26 PM
LouBob I agree with cowboyman's assessment, with the caveat that "some" religions have had positive effects. We have many primitive and some not-so-primitive cultures that perpetuate barbaric behaviors in the name of religion. Some religions support behavior we consider civilized, and some don't.
February 23rd, 2008 12:19 AM
Rachel L Yes....some horrible things have been done and are being done in the name of religion. Sad but true, and it keeps people confused.

Don't animals with rabies act all crazy and attack things? I'm guessing that's never happened with a BF, what does everyone else think? Unless the poor thing died before it could do much damage and draw attention to itself....
February 23rd, 2008 12:42 AM
Clindsay There are horrible things that happen in the name of many things regardless of the spiritual nature of it. See it all of the time.

My understanding is that rabies does not affect humans the way it does other animals in that the urge to attack or lash out is not there. So if we are assuming the BF is a close relative would that remain the same? Is it reasonable to assume that if infected that they would react if they knew they were sick and going to die? That's been touched on here as to why we don't find skeletons or other remains.
February 23rd, 2008 12:48 AM
cowboyman I don't believe loubob said that Rachel ( Oh brother I 'm going to do it)
Loubob was agreeing with me about ( Her Quote) 'some" religions have had positive effects.
My point in this( it wasn't to start another holy war, one at a time on the forum is enough) was , culture, education , and OTHER influences seperated us from the beast of the wild . And also I was refering to your quote about a mother squatch abandoning young.
I was pointing out how horrific it seems to our culture yet another peron from another culture would not even give it a second thought
February 23rd, 2008 01:40 AM
snoots i worry about gay BF's..every hunter has seen gay deer so i wonder if we have gay BF"S....i seriously doubt any ramifications involving inbreeding...why...there are undoubtably more BF's then we can imagine..
February 23rd, 2008 02:00 AM
LouBob I believe the statistic is that about eight percent of all species are gay/bi. I could be off a bit, but I don't think it's over 10 percent.

(Why do I know this? Because my brain involuntarily absorbs trivia.)

(Edited by LouBob)
February 23rd, 2008 02:07 AM
Southman leave me out of this....

February 23rd, 2008 02:17 AM
Clindsay How did we get from rabies & mental illness to BF being gay and/or bi? It's hard to type and laugh like this. You guys are killing me!
February 23rd, 2008 04:28 AM
drguitar10 gay or retarted BF are you kidding? gay animals ? i grew up on a farm and saw cows mounting other cows becuz they were in cycle but as for gay i wouldnt think so . altho if i ever see a realy well dressed BF listening to liza ill let ya know .
i cant stop laughing !
February 23rd, 2008 04:36 AM
drguitar10 onthe illness tho im sure that what happens to one type of animal would happen to another .genitc mutaions and all but i wouldnt think they would live very long in the wild as for the bf killing or liveing sick ones behind i would think not .wernt they seen careing dead babbies before i read on this site that was the case and if they burry the dead ie, no bodys. does anyone know of top preds like bears or lions killing ther offspring becuz there not right?
February 23rd, 2008 07:39 AM
cowboyman A normal Bigfoot's call goes Hooowwwwllllllll.... Would a gay bigfoot goe yooohoooo! ( Adds a new slant on zapping, doesn't it)
February 23rd, 2008 12:39 PM
dtallman Since it was brought up, there are a lot of species of animals that regularly practice homosexual tendancies. Most notably the Bonobo monkey. Now I am not saying that a BF would, but the chance is there. Also, I agree that a deformed or otherwise abnormal BF baby would probably be left to die. BF are humanlike, not human. They are a wild creature that has to preserve their own species. Letting a deformed BF live could be detrimental to the species. Survival of the fittest is vital to the existence of wild animals. One bad gene that is passed on could severely reduce the population and that is not good in a species that is already endangered.
February 23rd, 2008 03:38 PM
Andy And I thought I was the only one drinking too much coffee....

Rabies, rabies, rabies.....well, I had a rabid fox in the yard a few years ago & all it did was stagger around and look sicker than sick until it got put out of its misery.

Rabid dogs, however, get something actually called Furious Rabies, in which they are first agitated and vicious, then fall into a paralysis and finally die---very nasty. Some of them just get paralytic symptoms, which is called Dumb Rabies, and just get sick and die.
What's really going on is that the virus has caused disease processes in the brain and the lining around the brain--this has to be the mother of all headaches.

In people...the incubation period can be anywhere from a few days to about a year, but is usually about a month. If you are bitten get the shot--my neighbor was bitten by a coyote and had to have the shots.
Untreated, rabies will start out with a fever and viremia, just like any flu, then progress to restlessness and horribe muscle spasms especially in the throat/larynx. People almost (I say almost because perhaps 2 have survived this, but only 2) always die of asphyxia or paralysis in about a week.)

This all made me curious about primate diseases, so I looked them up and found:

which lists a staggering number of nasty, nasty infections they (and we) can get/give.

I then tried repeatedly to find decent articles on primate mental illness, but other than one on a captivity-induced depravity, and one suspect article on a Freudian neurosis acquired by a chimpanzee (What. Utter. Idocy.) there doesn't seem to be much in the way of observed psychoses.
(And that's really interesting, because that means there's no really good animal model for its study, hence the lack of progress in that area....)
Ms. Goodall has more than once mentioned that captivity appears to drive some higher primates nuts.

What this might mean for BF is that he does not suffer major mood disorders.

But I wouldn't rule out a crabby old BF or an aggressive BF, because I have yet to see a smart mammal species that didn't produce varieties of personality--nice to nasty--in its individuals.
I leave the gay BFs to the rest of you; normally I don't care, but the visual on that yooohoooo........
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